May 22, 2008

"WOO ... Sweet God!"

Hitler was sent by Jesus to "hunt" Jews.*

Says John McCain's pastor, John Hagee.

* Jeremiah 16:16.

12 comments:

Rick Esenberg said...

He's not and never was McCain's pastor. He's some guy that endorsed him and there isn't a shred of evidence that McCain knew anything about him other than that he was a religious leader of some prominence. There is no equivalence between McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright.

illusory tenant said...

Well, he's a pastor, and McCain actively sought his support, so that makes him McCain's pastor. One of several, apparently, including the similarly wacky Rod Parsley, who McCain called a "moral compass" and a "spiritual guide."

Of course maybe McCain meant Parsley is somebody's else's moral compass and spiritual guide.

There is no equivalence between McCain/Hagee and Obama/Wright.

I'll say! Hagee is nuts.

gnarlytrombone said...

"Some guy" who somehow managed to get Ken Mehlman, Sam Brownback, Rick Santorum, Kay Bailey Hutchinson, John Cornyn, Roy Blunt and George W. Bush (via videotaped greeting) to attend the grand opening of his Road to the Apocalypse PAC.

IOKIYAR is just another word for nothin' left to lose.

gnarlytrombone said...

Hagee is in one sense a small Elmer Gantryish potato, though, both in terms of influence and creepiness.

I highly recommend this bloggingheads episode about "The Family," a strange cabal of CEOs and GOPniks who admire Hitler's leadership qualities.

There's an especially delicious moment about 27 minutes in when the journalist mentions how industrial baron David Koch used his "Family" ties with Sen. Brownback to engineer a deal in a Central Asian dictatorship.

The journalist mentions offhand that Koch funds the CATO Institute (his father founded it). His flunky libertarian interlocutor sheepishly admits that Koch sits on CATO's board of directors.

Rick Esenberg said...

Well, I understand you are not a churchgoer but that hardly makes him McCain's pastor. Nor do I assume that politicians who seek people's support automatically know much about them other than that someone decided that they should seek it out. Obama had a relationship with Wright. McCain had no relationship with Hagee. When he was confronted with Hagee's objectionable statements, he denounced them rather than try to have it both ways as Obama did.

illusory tenant said...

Not being a churchgoer has nothing to do with it. I know a few devout Christians who don't go near the joints either.

And I didn't mean by "McCain's pastor" that Hagee is the head of McCain's chosen flock; it's a political designation that McCain has earned himself.

In fact, McCain doesn't strike me as very religious at all.

The parallel, as I see it, is that Barack Obama is no more responsible for Jeremiah Wright's more controversial views than McCain is for Hagee's.

The non-parallel is that Hagee is several orders of magnitude crazier than Wright could ever hope to be, yet there exists in the press something of a double standard, which the linked Salon piece discusses.

gnarlytrombone said...

The parallel, as I see it, is that Barack Obama is no more responsible for Jeremiah Wright's more controversial views than McCain is for Hagee's.

It inevitably comes off as rank partisanship to say so, but that's just not true. Hagee, like Charles Coughlin and unlike Wright, has real, flesh-and-blood political power. And despite being couched in comical millennialist nonsense, he advocates for specific, real-world policies in the Middle East that he and his followers think will trigger cataclysms both large and small. (It's not coincidental that Hagee and Condoleezza Rice both use the term "birth pangs.")

McCain convinced Hagee that he may not share the ends but that they definitely share the same view of the means.

McCain's continued acceptance of Hagee's endorsement can't be dismissed as simple pandering for votes. There's a quid pro quo at play here that has life and death implications.

Thomas Joseph said...

McCain's continued acceptance of Hagee's endorsement can't be dismissed as simple pandering for votes.

Heck, if one wants to pander for votes, one should have to accept everything that pandering might lead to. It's one thing to be endorsed by someone you never pandered to. It's another entirely to actively seek the endorsement of someone. McCain must've known about Hagee's views/propensities/etc prior to seeking his endorsement and he either agrees with them or doesn't care how it effects others. If he didn't, he's an idiot (which doesn't bode well either).

gnarlytrombone said...

(I think the media's blase dismissal of Hagee is in part based on his over-the-top clownishness. Hagee understands this, and uses it to his benefit.

But he's a clown with clout. After meeting with Ehud Olmert, Hagee handed former likudnik PM Netanyahu a check for $8.5 million.)

Brett said...

If we're going to get bogged down over what constitutes a "shred of evidence," I'd consider such things like "constructive knowledge" (should have known), "ratification" (adopted reasoning), or "vicarious liability" (acts of the agent become that of the principal), any one of which is marginally applicable in the world-o-politics and employed selectively by those who think they're making a "point." The point is, sauce for the goose is surely sauce for the gander. It's been dished already, so it's time to pass the plate.

scd said...

He's not and never was McCain's pastor. He's some guy that endorsed him and there isn't a shred of evidence that McCain knew anything about him other than that he was a religious leader of some prominence.

Excellent! That means there no history between them that could cause McCain so much as a moment's pause in denouncing Hagee as a hateful lunatic and repudiating Hagee's endorsement in the strongest possible terms. Still waiting.

When he was confronted with Hagee's objectionable statements, he denounced them rather than try to have it both ways as Obama did.

Really? On Bill Bennett's radio show McCain nominally "denounced" Hagee's heinous anti-Catholic comments but immediately backtracked by talking about how the comments were "taken out of context."

gnarlytrombone said...

Bada bing.

"Obviously, I find these remarks and others deeply offensive and indefensible, and I repudiate them," McCain told CNN in a statement. "I did not know of them before Reverend Hagee's endorsement, and I feel I must reject his endorsement as well.

"I have said I do not believe Senator Obama shares Reverend Wright's extreme views. But let me also be clear, Reverend Hagee was not and is not my pastor or spiritual advisor, and I did not attend his church for twenty years. I have denounced statements he made immediately upon learning of them, as I do again today."

What an honorable man. He's restored my respect entirely.